The Specialist: Angie Payne on Pressure, Performance, and Possiblities.

Ready.

 I've known Angie Payne for a long time... since I was a bolt-hating traddie and she had already decided she was a boulderer.  She used to ask when I was going to go bouldering with them, and I'd answer by asking when she'd come plug gear with us.  Angie soon moved to Boulder, became a superstar, and I left climbing for the hiphop world.  When climbing came calling again I soon reconnected with Angie, at a time when she got injured, her personal life was enduring turmoil, and her climbing star was dimming.

In a song for DPM I said this line:  "Angie Paynes gon' come back like P-Rob did."

Not long after, in hushed tones as if it were to be kept secret, Angie told me, "I think I'm stronger than ever!"

And so it was.


Oftentimes when peoples lives are in the midst of drastic changes, climbing suffers.  Your life was changing direction significantly when you "reemerged" as a bigger, badder, stronger Angie.  Can you point to any 2 or 3 things as being the most important catalysts for the refocusing?

Try Hard.  Photo: Gabe Dewitt for the Unified Bouldering Championships

(Angie)  I guess the main catalyst for my eventual refocusing actually came more than a year before I really “reemerged.”  In early 2009, I fell in the gym and hurt my ankle badly.  In the same week, I also ended a 5-year relationship.  It was a rough time in my life, to say the least.  After months of supposed “healing,” I ended up getting surgery, which put me out for another 4 months.  All told, I was basically without climbing for 8 months.  While I was optimistic that climbing would still be a part of my life, I had sort of resigned myself to the fact that maybe my strongest days were behind me.  So, when I started climbing again, I didn’t have many expectations for myself -- I was just happy to be moving again.  I climbed with more purpose, maybe because I felt an urgency to climb while I was healthy.  At the same time, I felt calmer, felt a certain sense of relief, because I felt that I had “reclaimed” climbing as my own thing in a way.  I had climbed since I was 11 and had definitely gone through phases when I felt that climbing wasn’t really just something I did for myself.  There were times when I wondered if I climbed just because I was good at it, or because it was what me and my boyfriend did together, or because I was consumed by the obsession of it.  When I came back from my injury, I was horribly out of shape, so I wasn’t particularly “good” at climbing at that time, and I had broken up with my boyfriend, so I wasn’t climbing with him.  I was climbing simply because I had missed it so badly and wanted to feel it again. At that point, I realized that I climbed because I wanted to.  That was a huge turning point for me and my climbing.  

With the new crop of young strong girls like the Alex's, were there frustrating times when you felt like maybe your best was behind you?  Ultimately, how did you block out those doubts long enough to send, or more important, long enough not to abandon "The Automator"? 

"European Human Being"  V12   Photo:  Ryan Olson

(Angie)There were definitely times when I felt like the old talent, and there are still moments when I feel that way.  It is becoming more and more typical that I am one of the older competitors at a competition, but I try my hardest to use that as a source of motivation instead of an excuse for failure.  There will always be someone younger, stronger, better.  But I can’t change those people, I can only try harder to keep up, or better yet, to lead.  Even if I can’t be the strongest, I can use my experience to my advantage.  I also find it very motivating that I might be able to help progress the sport now, so that stronger and younger climbers might build on my accomplishments and take them further.  My generation stands on the shoulders of those female boulderers that came before me, and there would be nothing more satisfying than knowing that a future generation might stand on the shoulders of me and my peers. 
As for the Automator, competition with the “younger generation” certainly played a part in my doing that boulder.  Flannery Shay-Nemirow invited me to try the boulder with her, and although she isn’t too much younger than me, I think she represented the younger and stronger up-and-coming generation in my mind.  I climbed on it with her and definitely felt motivated to try harder to keep up.  I wouldn’t say that I was trying to do the boulder just out of pure competitive desire, but being pushed by a younger and stronger climber certainly didn’t make my efforts less intense.  However, when it came down to actually completing the boulder, I don’t think I would have done it had I been solely focused on the competitive aspect of it.  Instead, I focused on how much I wanted to help progress the sport for the future generations, how badly I wanted to leave my teeny tiny mark on my teeny tiny sliver of the sport.   And in the end, I just wanted to do it to do it, for myself. 

Speaking of competition, you said something interesting in an interview with Pete Ward after the recent ABS Nationals, where you placed 2nd behind Puccio.  You mentioned a rivalry between the two of you, then said “At least I have a rivalry with her, maybe she doesn’t have a rivalry with me.”  I was pleasantly surprised to hear that come out of a normally reserved Angie.  Particularly that you could realize that the rivalry is a psychological tool you use, and might not even really exist (though I think it must, unless she is a Jedi).  Do you purposely use these psychological tools or are they just born of the years of competition?

Beast.  Photo:  Brendan Mitchell

It’s true that I have a personal rivalry with Pooch, and I strive to beat her someday in a competition because I have a great deal of respect for her as a competitor and would like to reach a level of strength closer to hers. For me, friendly rivalries like this do serve as motivation for me to train harder and try harder in competitions.  However, that is sometimes a risky attitude to have, because when you start worrying about the performance of others in a competition, it is often distracting and detrimental in the end.  But that is the nature of competitions; the routes are always changing and the only thing that stays relatively consistent is the field of competitors.  Some people don’t like competitions for that reason, because they would rather focus on competition with the self instead of with others.  But the way I see it, events where me, Pooch, AJ, Francesca, Lizzie, Sasha, etc. are going head to head are an amazing source of motivation for all of us and a great way to help raise the bar in our sport.  I try hard to keep up with all of those girls and hope that my trying hard pushes them to try harder, and the cycle inevitably leads to progression.  That’s what it’s all about.        

Top American climbers seem to have a tough time grasping the concept of being coached, or even following a training schedule.  What made you decide that having someone help you with your training was a good idea?

(Angie) For 14 years, I had some serious weaknesses in my climbing.  I always knew that, but it never seemed to be enough of a problem to hold me back drastically.  But, over the past 5 or so years, women’s comp boulders have become more dynamic and it has become harder for me to cheerfully ignore my weaknesses if I want to keep up and progress as a climber.  So, last year, in preparation for Nationals, I decided to get help with training from a friend who knows my climbing style very well.  I knew that it would be easier and more efficient to have someone else sort of force me to do what I was bad at.  In addition to providing much-needed structure, my friend’s presence also helped me keep a good attitude and give full effort more often.  Because I am basically a shy person, when I am climbing with someone else I tend to censor my negativity and put up a front of sorts to hide any underlying frustration I am feeling.  So, having my coach around had the added benefit of keeping my spirits high and my effort closer to 100%.  My climbing definitely improved as a result of asking someone else to help me.  Now, I often wish I had even more structure for my training.  I watch these specials on ESPN about Freddie Roach, coach to Pacquiao, and wish that I had someone to really bust my butt like that guy does.  I’m sure it would be a suffer fest, but I’m also sure it would be worth it.  Maybe Freddie needs to get into climbing ;)

Not enough money in it!  I’ve always been a big boxing fan, and often reference Angelo Dundee (trainer of Ali and Sugar Ray Leonard) when talking about training.  Dundee never boxed a round, but somehow shaped great boxers.  Do you believe that other top climbers could benefit from more structured training… even from climbers not as talented as they are?   What about if you take formal competition out of the equation… where does training fit in then?

I have no doubt that there are many top climbers who could benefit from more structured training.  After all, the thousands and thousands of pro athletes in other sports who all have trainers are probably not wrong.  I am all for the idea that the best training for climbing is climbing, but I am also pretty convinced that certain forms of strength training and conditioning could be incredibly beneficial to one’s climbing.  For that type of training, a top climber could be trained by someone not as talented as they are and still benefit greatly.  I don’t think I’m the only climber out there who doesn’t enjoy working weaknesses, so in that respect a lot of top climbers could benefit from having more structured training to target those weaknesses. 
As far as non-competition training is concerned, I think that structured training can still be beneficial, although I do believe that climbing on real rock is an irreplaceable form of training for sending outside.  Personally, I know very little about conditioning and strengthening exercises, so I would definitely trust a trainer to teach me about those things.  When it comes to actual climbing, however, I would have to know that a person is an exceptionally good climber (not necessarily a stronger climber, just a very skilled climber) before I would take his/her advice regarding climbing seriously.     

On another note, during finals at Nationals, on problem #3, you’re the only competitor who all out jumped for the big volume.  I KNOW the old Angie would have found some other solution.  The last step in learning a new skill is having it mastered to the point of knowing when to pull it out of the bag.  If your jump hadn’t worked, it would have been a very easy moment to give up on addressing that weakness.  What were your thoughts when you saw the solutions the other girls came up with?

 My very first thought was “Well that was stupid, Ange…what the hell were you thinking trying such a risky jump???”  In reality, I thought AJ had done that method, based on my observation of the crowd’s reactions.  I am finding that a new challenge that now exists is that I have this new ‘tool’…this jumping thing, that I can do now, and sometimes I get too excited to put it to use, and I forget to just let my body climb like it wants to and jump only when I need to.  It’s true that a few years ago, or even a year ago, I never would have tried that jump.  But now I am sort of hyperaware of the possibility that jumps might exist, and I’m still over thinking that part of it.  Soon enough, I’m hoping that the pendulum will swing back to a more middle ground, where I learn to jump when I need to and climb like the ‘old Ange’ when I need to.  And as you said, that is when I will have truly mastered jumping.  In this particular case, it worked out alright because I pulled it off, but had my method failed, I might still be beating myself up about it…

I'm sure with the "first female to climb v13" tag, comes pressure to do another, or to do v14.  Is it a balancing act between the pressure and finding your own joy in climbing, and is there anything you do to help navigate that?

(Angie)  It’s funny, because when I did the Automator, I remember having that moment that I often have after accomplishing a goal when I think “alright, I did it, I’m satisfied, I can stop putting pressure on myself.”  Of course, I always know that is a joke, because I will never be completely satisfied, and I will always put pressure on myself to do better.  So, yes, there is definitely a certain amount of (predominately) self-imposed pressure to climb another V13 or climb V14.  This past summer I struggled with the pressure/joy balance.  I decided that before I attempted a V14, it would be a good idea to try another V13.  I picked Freaks of the Industry, another crimpy traverse in the Park that suited my style.  I had started working on this problem at the end of the previous season, and I had done all the moves.  I was confident that I could finish it this past summer, and that was my first mistake.  I started falling at the end of the boulder after about 7 days of effort.  I continued to fall at the end for another 18 days before snow ended the season.  I was forced to remember that V13 is HARD, and just because I’ve climbed one doesn’t mean I can just hop on another one and get it done. 

3 years of efforts.  "European Human Being" V12

There were so many days when I was up there alone, cursing the boulder, even crying sometimes because I was so frustrated.  It was at those points that I would have to slap myself and look around at where I was.  I was alone, in one of the most beautiful places I know of.  And no matter how pissed off I was, I would always try to remember that I wouldn’t be in this amazing place without climbing, and that always reminded me how much I wanted to be right there at that moment, flailing on a piece of rock, feeling utterly frustrated yet content.  I miss those moments during the winter when I am almost always climbing with other people.  I never realize completely when I am trying a project just how much satisfaction and joy I get from the process of it all and the time it often provides me to be alone doing the thing I love. 


This reminds me of the conversation you and I had last time I was back in Cincy, when we talked about the risk involved in trying something at your limit instead of going to climb a “sure thing.”

Exactly.  That’s something I’ve struggled with myself over the last couple of seasons.  How do you plan on approaching that balance between risk and reward for the upcoming season?  The possibility of walking away empty handed…again… is pretty daunting. 

Yes, that possibility is very intimidating and I think about it often.  Just a few minutes ago, for example, I had to make a list of recent ascents, and my list was pitifully small.  Because I spent nearly all of last season climbing on a single boulder, I have nothing to ‘show’ for it, in a way.  Of course, I know better than to think that I really walked away ‘empty handed,’ because I took a great deal from the experience.  But because I didn’t send, there isn’t that final validation of all of that effort.  It is certainly tempting to say that this season I will just go climb things that I know I can finish, and end up with a nice healthy list of sends, and a feeling of validation.  But personally, I get much more out of an accomplishment if it involves taking a bigger risk and making a bigger time commitment.  Last season, I took that idea to the extreme, and spent nearly every single climbing day at the same boulder.  While I don’t in any way regret last season’s efforts, I would definitely change some things about my approach.  In the upcoming season, I plan on rationing my motivation more wisely by climbing on some other boulders in between time spent on my project.  It’s painful to step away from a boulder when you think that any day you might send, but at some point after falling on the last move for days and days, it’s not a bad idea to give yourself some ‘reward’ on another boulder, to get back in that rhythm of succeeding instead of failing.  It’s so easy to ‘learn’ to fall at a certain point on a project after doing just that almost every single attempt.  It’s not bad to take some time to reprogram your brain and break that habit.  But that’s easier said than done, because when success seems so close, it’s hard to turn your back on it.  But in the end, the project isn’t going anywhere, and eventually, whether it be tomorrow or ten years from now, success will come, and it will all feel worth it.  On a side note, I often think about what we discussed at some point during one of my recent visits—the thought of what people like Daniel Woods and Paul Robinson and all the other mutant strong guys could accomplish if they spent 30 days trying something.  If Woods can climb V15 in fewer than 10 days, what would happen if he took the risk of not sending something for a few months, and put that time into a ridiculous project?  I think we would see the next level…even though I can’t even imagine what it would look like.  Success is addictive, and when the option to succeed exists, potential failure isn’t very alluring.  

The time of her life.  Photo:  Ben Alexandra

Something tells me that we haven't heard the last of Angie Payne.  There's just too much joy in it.

Weather Or Not. The Problem with Periodized Training.

Disclaimer:  I don't rant much on here.  Today I will.  After the rant I'll go back to putting together a great interview with Angie Payne concerning the mental space required to perform at such a high level.  That will be posted up in the next week, possibly in two parts.  For now...

Let me start off by saying that I still believe that periodized training is the way to go for anyone with specific goals that require them to perform at the upper limits of their abilities.  Now that I've said that, allow me to tell you what I think right this second... when dealing with the unpredictability of weather in this region of the country, periodized training can kiss my ass. 

Ok, I might be a little premature with this.  I'm just now in the middle of my post-training rest week, and only just beginning to gear up for a run at my peak performance levels.  The weather could decide to cooperate, I'll get to climb in less than 85 degree, 80% humidity conditions, and I'll have this post to look back on and laugh about.    Or, the summer will be here to stay, I'll trash my skin climbing in jungle conditions, maybe send a few easier routes, stress about losing time, and again move on to another session of periodized training.  Regardless, I'll know I did what I could do. 

Spring is broken.  Someone please fix it?

For those of you living in the blissfull ignorance of consistently good climbing conditions, I'll clue you into what the hell I'm ranting about.  Red River Gorge is a temperate rain forest, and in the summer, conditions generally suck for hard rock climbing.  This year, it's looking more and more like the winter that never was went straight into summer.  We've had several days of record highs thus far.  Spring might not happen at all, or maybe it happened in February, when I wasn't looking. 

And therein lies the problem.  For many of us, especially those of us who are weekend warriors trying to climb at a level we have to really work hard for, outdoor conditions have the final say in whether or not we can achieve our goals.  It's frustrating.  Or, it's glorious.  You do what you can do.

My friend Yasmeen, who I've posted about before, was also finishing up her training, and prepping for a trip to Rodellar so she could escape our early summer.  Last night she rolled her ankle in the gym, ending up with a fracture.  It's frustrating.  Her text to me earlier tonight:  "We did do a hangboard workout today, though!  :)"  You do what you can do. 

Simply put, what am I complaining about?  I'm in the best shape of my life, I spent several early mornings working out the moves of a climb with a grade I once thought to be mythical, and you know what... those routes aren't going anywhere.  They'll still be there for me to send when the cool air comes back around.  Difference is, I'll be even stronger then.  You know, you do what you can do.

Glad to have that out of the way.  Thanks for listening. 

The Specialist: Routesetting with Chris Danielson.

Most of us have seen the BigUp film short, "The Insiders", right?  If you did, and you didn't instantly want to try the bat-hang-push-swing-drop-down move, then you just aren't as cool as I thought you were.  And what about that sloper route that Paul is working out?  Fact is, the problems and routes... more importantly, the movement... made that film more fun to watch.

Photo:  Caroline Treadway

The man behind that movement was Chris Danielson.  Not only is Chris the chairman of the USAC Routesetting Committee, the National Climbing Gym Rep for GTHI, and the founder of THREAD Climbing Wall Consultation, but he is the absolute go-to guy for any big comp or gym consulting project.  In my research about Chris, I found several instances of other professional setters naming him as their hero and inspiration.  In short, the guy is talented.

As Chris represents several companies, including E-Grips, Teknik, So Ill, PMI, Trango, Moon Climbing and 5.10, and is constantly shuttling around the country to teach setting clinics and help gyms get opened up, his time is limited.  When I asked him if I could ask a few questions, I expected to queue up in line and wait a while.  Suprisingly, the answers came back lighting fast, and much more in depth than I could have hoped.  I think Chris just really loves to talk setting.

Before we get started, let me tell you where the questions arose from.  I've been in the gym too many days lately, several of them setting a problem.  Yes, one single problem.  It's about 30 moves long, small holds, and hovers right around 14a.  I wanted it to be perfect, so there has been endless tweaking.  It still may not be finished.  The idea is to have a problem that can carry me through my maximum recruitment phase and that I might have an outside chance at sending by the time I'm wrapping up AE.

Photo:  Caroline Treadway

Those wrench turning sessions led me to think back to the questions I'd received about setting for your own training.  It's difficult.  That's a fact.  Who better to get some insight from than Chris Danielson?  Lucky for us, he's the nicest guy around... and he absolutely loves to talk setting.

 Just to give Chris a general idea of where I was in terms of my setting knowledge, I pointed him in the direction of our previous post, Set The Stage.  I was pleasantly surprised that he took the time to critique my thoughts, as well as add a few tips of his own.  You can click the below topics to reference back to the original post if need be:


1.  Make it Ludicrous.

(Chris)  Yes, and no.  Really, it depends on who you are.  When setting for comps where the climbers are above my own ability, I often have a similar problem to what you have, choosing holds that are too positive and underestimating my own ability, or theirs, on the first skeleton set of a route or boulder.  But, many younger or newer climbers or setters, I think more often have the problem of making things far more difficult than they think it is going to be, and usually with extending the reach too far.  So, it can go both ways.  A way to broaden the point (and this is good for overall improvement of setting) is not just to try to make the moves ludicrous - but perhaps better sometimes, make the MOVES ludicrous - and by that I don't mean hard or big or crazy dynamic - just... not the first thing you would think to do, not intuitive.  When you are grabbing a hold on the wall, and look to the most intuitive place to put the next one, often it can be good to just try to put it, instead, in the last place you would have thought of.

2.  Forget The Feet.

(Chris)  Definitely, using tracking feet can be great.  Another step would be to not use tracking feet at all, but ONLY use jib feet (this may mean having to litter your wall with small screw-on jibs).  If you want to work your footwork and tension, this is an excellent thing to build into your training.  Fill your wall with jib feet (not just at the base, but up to the high point of where your feet go) and then try problems you've set before for yourself with open feet, second with tracking feet, then, make it really hard by using just jib feet.

3.  Tiny Holds, Big Feet... Big Holds, Tiny Feet.

Absolutely.  It is another method to do something counter-intuitive.  In commercial routesetting we often avoid using big feature holds or jugs as just footholds, since they can be better used in more interesting ways - but, there are no rules... even your own intuitive methods for how to climb or set, that begin to seem like rules for yourself... of course are not rules.  Break them.

4.  No Wrenches. 

(Chris)  This is an excellent lesson.  Although people know me as a routesetter, and that typically means to most, turning a wrench to put up holds, in reality I only put holds on a wall, maybe 40 - 50 days out of a year.  But, I climb 3 - 4 nights a week, and EVERY time I climb I am routesetting.  No matter where I am climbing or what gym I go to, I am always creating boulders based on existing holds on the wall.  For me, this is, without question, the best way to better understand how to create movement, and also understand the movement itself better.  On your gym's wall, or a home woodie, with enough density of holds, you can make up a dozen or more new climbs every night.

5.  Get A Tall, Strong Friend. 

Photo:  Caroline Treadway

(Chris)  Yup, always helps.  A phrase I often use to help people motivate is, if you can't reach it, just climb taller.

It's always nice to get validation from one of the best in the industry that your thought process is on the general right track, but it's even better to have them point you in a more efficient direction.  I would have been elated with just the responses I got concerning the "Set The Stage" post, but Chris had so much more to say.
 


While reading about your setting, I've noticed a consistent theme... quality of movement.  Many setters speak more about difficulty than quality of movement, and I find that in many cases, the two have a hard time coexisting.  Is there something specific you do to ensure quality movement when setting hard problems?

Photo:  Caroline Treadway

(Chris)  There are many things, but quality of movement is subjective, just like everything else in climbing, so for me it's very personal.  When I create moves, whether I can physically do them or not, I want to have fun in the climbing itself.  More often than not, this means I want to be "comfortable", which generally means avoiding really sharp holds or positions that torque the wrist or knees, etc.  However, sometimes creating movements that feel uncomfortable until you figure out how to make them feel comfortable can be rewarding too.

There are a couple other things I would say are essential to my approach to routesetting and i think hopefully, the resulting quality of the product.  One is that I very seriously consider the aesthetic look of the boulder or route (the path of the line, the "art" of how the holds interact with each other or the wall or the climber, and how the complete product looks on the wall).  Another thing that I always ask myself in this vein is, does the camera like it?

Are there any "tricks" that you employ to escape the "smaller hold, bigger move, less feet" dillema that seems to haunt the difficult problems of many gyms?

Photo:  Caroline Treadway

(Chris)  Many, yes, but most are common sense.
Use worse holds but put them closer together.
Use small or directional feet, requiring the climber to use body tension or pull or push (in a direction other than straight down) with the feet rather than just stand.
Instead of orienting holds in relatively horizontal positions, try more often to rotate them between 10 and 2 o'clock, and 4 and 8 o'clock.
Go sideways. I like to say, when you go sideways, cool shit happens, and that's true... but also, you can move away from tracking feet, and thus define the difficulty of the movement with specific additional footholds, rather than just "grab hold, stand on last handhold, pull and reach to next hold."

For the purpose of training, many of us would like to be able to set problems that are just outside of our current ability...something to learn on for several weeks, but find it difficult to do so without really understanding more difficult movements.  Can you take us step by step through your process of setting a problem like that for yourself?

Photo:  Caroline Treadway

(Chris)  This is hard to explain or teach, but fundamentally it is about your ability to visualize movement effectively.  The better you can tell when looking at holds on a wall, what best position the body should be in to be able to do the move, or whether the reach is too far for a certain height, or whether it is "x" difficulty - the better you will understand climbing.  The better you understand climbing, the more able you are to calibrate difficulty. 

Step by step, I suppose I would say the best way to get better at this is to create boulders from existing holds on the wall.  I will start with one or two starting hands, and then select the next handhold to move to.  The next step, before just choosing the handhold(s) in the next movements, is to consider the feet.  I prefer to set visualizing the feet, and thus body position, for every movement rather than choose an entire sequence of handholds and then assume tracking or put feet on afterward.

Also, if you really want to get better at it, don't try each move as you go.  Try to visualize the entire boulder or route, and then try the whole thing.  Only in this way will you be able to evaluate whether you are gauging distances, quality of holds, and body positions accurately.  It is all trial and error and eventually you can begin to visualize what is possible outside of your own current ability, or as I often do, for other climbers both below and above my ability. 

Setting for Paul Robinson or Daniel Woods must require an understanding of movements that you may not be able to do.  Any tips not for setting, but for just understanding those more difficult movements?

Photo:  Caroline Treadway

(Chris)  Much of what I wrote above answers this in one way or another, but the one tip to add is: Watch.  Watch everything.  The distances.  The way a climber grabs holds.  The speed at which they move from one hold to another.  The placement of the feet.  The positioning of the core of the body in relation to the points of contact, etc.

You've set for some of the strongest boulderers on the planet, as well as for some very strong tiny kids, like Ashima, and I imagine that you don't always get the problem right the first time.  Is there a process of tweaking that you go through to get those problems just right, other than just make the hold smaller or the reach bigger, while still keeping true to your creative vision?

(Chris)  Definitely don't get it right all the time.  Impossible.  What I focus on trying to get right is what we sometimes refer to as the "geometry" of the movement.  Especially when setting for kids, the challenge is in the distances and body positioning.  I work hard, taking my time in the actual setting process with the choice of holds and placements, and to "put the holds in the right t-nuts", meaning that I want to get the distances and body positioning right through the visualization.  I will sometimes have to make changes, of course, but more often than not the changes are in the orientation of the holds, or the holds themselves.  

My goal is always to basically set it perfect the first time, but there is not perfect, so I am always striving for the unattainable.  It starts with the geometry, then if calibration is necessary, i first consider turning the holds, then perhaps to move or add a foot or intermediate.  If further work is appropriate, I then consider changing the holds or the t-nut positioning.  Lastly, if something is still not working, I consider changing the sequence entirely, starting from scratch. 

Lessons like these are rare, and I value them greatly.  I've read and reread what Chris wrote, and I'm sure I'll be rereading it many more times in the hopes that I can learn some of this masters approach to crafting movement.  Hope this helps you too.

Photo:  Caroline Treadway

Special thanks to Caroline Treadway for allowing me to use all the wonderful photos in this post.  You can find her blog, and more of her photo work at http://carolinetreadway.wordpress.com/.

The Specialist: Hangboarding With Ryan Palo

With this post I'm starting a new, regular section at The Power Company.  "The Specialist" will ask questions of climbers we can stand to learn alot from.  I don't have all the answers... but we can sure as hell try and find someone who does.

In October of 2010 I sent one of the many super classic Kenny Barker 13b's that the Red has to offer.  "No Redemption" was one of my most satisfying sends to date.  I was finishing the day at a neighboring crag, and had just cleaned my draws off of an onsight of another RRG classic, "Hakuna Matata" (12a).  Belaying my partner on a nearby line, I overheard someone direct a basic question about training to the guy now belaying under "Hakuna Matata".   While at the crag I hear lots of chatter about training, most of it ridiculously misdirected, so I expected to hear something about one arm pullups, running 20 miles a day, or underwater bikram yoga.  Instead I heard an answer about anaerobic endurance that obviously was backed by a wealth of knowledge.  Even more strange, the answer was sensible, and didn't seem to be quoted from a training book.

Ryan on "Shoot'em Up" 14b. Photo by Tara Reynvaan

Not long after, I recognized a face in a magazine as the guy I'd heard talk training at Drive By Crag that day.  Ryan Palo had just done another fingery nightmare of a hard route, and was wrapping up an extended roadtrip.  I was suprised to learn that he was a working guy, though I suppose that explained the training knowledge.  Everything I read indicated that Ryan worked hard to clip chains on the 20-some 5.14's he's done.  That impresses me far more than another 14+ ascent by a random big name, full time climber.

Leading into fall 2011, I received this message from Ryan:

Hey Kris,

I was surprised you listed bouldering as your number one as far as hypertrophy is concerned. To me hangboarding is far more specific than a boulder problem. It's hard to precisely definite the actual difficulty in a problem. Far less controlled. Dont get me wrong, I believe bouldering should play an integral part in anyone's program. It's just that it's a bit closer to "complex" training than true hypertrophy.

I usually structure my program to include bouldering. It's just that it follows the day after my hangbaording. I just perform a but better after some rest and bouldering leaves my hands a bit torn up.

Anyhow, just thought I'd share a bit.

Hope you've healed up well since your trip. Take care.

R

At the time, I had my reasons for making bouldering my priority, but this message did get me thinking.  Should I be investing more time and focus on the hangboard and other sport specific exercises?  Is it time to mostly move on from the "movement" training I'd been doing?  When it came time to get myself back into the gym to get ready for the upcoming spring, I figured Ryan would be the best guy to consult about how exactly he uses his hangboard for the purpose of hypertrophy.  After talking a little with Ryan, I've altered my training plan to try out some of his methods.  He was nice enough to let me give you all the run down on our conversations.

Photo by Jason Karn for Metolius

For the purpose of hypertrophy, what's the maximum seconds you hang a grip before adding resistance? How many grips per set?

  (Ryan)  I try my best to simulate a crux sequence while hangboarding. Generally 6-7 moves long. So I do 6-7 reps per hangboard set. I think it takes around 7 seconds to latch, pull up, place my feet and reach for the next grip. So I use a similar duration in my hangboarding.

Do you ever work grips that need decreased resistance or just build up to being able to use them over time?

(Ryan)   I've yet to take away weight while hangboarding. I didnt really start hangboarding and seriously training till I was already pretty fit. But most of my training has been on standard hangboards which really dont have terrible grips. I've been toying with the idea of building my own and experimenting with taking away weight.

Full crimp, half crimp, open handed? Do you train all of these?

(Ryan)  The holds at my local areas really don’t allow the full crimp. They’re mostly rounded edges. So, I’ve never really spent time training it. For the most part I use the open position when grabbing holds. Not because I find it to be less injurious ( it is ), but because I find you can make more surface contact with the rock when using this position. My fallback is of course the half crimp.

How many hangboard sessions a week are preferred during a hypertrophy phase?

(Ryan)  In a given week I’ll do 2-3 hangboard sessions. Usually three. Each session I do contains 14-21 hangboard sets. Which takes about 2 hours total with warm up and cool down.
At first I wasn’t able to take so much. My skin simply wouldn’t allow it. Over time I was able to add more and more as the super-compensation period decreased.

So anywhere from roughly 84-127 grips per session, right? Since you're simulating cruxes, do you rest between the 6 or 7 grips in a set? 

(Ryan)  I do rest between reps. Roughly 3 sec. I use a digital timer that displays milli-seconds. Really important for anticipating the start and end of a rep. I usually rest 2-3 minutes between sets. That's just enough time to retape, let my heart rate down, brush the holds, and chalk up.

"To Bolt Or Not To Be" 14a.  Photo by Kris Taylor

Any one armed hangs? Or do you prefer to just keep adding weight? Is there a limit to the weight you'll add?

(Ryan)  I've wanted to experiment with one arms for some time. The only reason I haven't done so is the time that would require. I'm a working man after all. I usually stop using a hold once Im comfortable with 40 lbs for a full set. I keep track of how I feel on each set. I try to keep the intensity around medium hard for regular hangbaording. I only go to 100% when doing one rep max hangboarding (Rule of 7). I find that my skin cant take it or I simply cannot complete the workout otherwise. It's hard to find that line, but I think it's important to stick to the routine. 

Do you continue hangboarding into your anaerobic phases? If so, do you alter the workout?

(Ryan)  Yes, but only for the first week. In the beginning of my cycle, I do mostly HYP activities, some max rec, and a little power endurance work. As the season approaches I taper off the HYP work. I used to adhere to a very strict regiment, where my sole focus was one phase for weeks on end. I found that my body had a hard time adjusting to the next phase.  

 For example when it's time to transition to max rec I might incorporate some PAP activities, such as blending hangboarding with campusing. An example might be doing a single hangboarding set followed immediately by a few reps on the campus rungs. Rest 2-3 minutes. Then repeated 10-14 times. After I've fully made the transition to max rec, I'll dedicate a bit more time to bouldering and up the sets on the campus board.  During the PE phase, I might do one or two small hangboard sessions a week throughout the phase. 7 sets vs the usual 21.

Ryan's Hangboard Log

In addition to the questions I posed, Ryan thought it pertinent to note that he uses an adhesive pre-taping spray and Antihydral to save his skin during training.  I've since tried both, and must admit that while the spray was a no brainer, I was skeptical of the Antihydral.  Two applications and I'm sold.  Skin had been a major limiting factor for me, and suddenly it's barely a factor at all.  This guy is full of useful advice!  Ryan also offers these helpful comments via his blog:

I usually add 5 pounds per week, starting with 10 pounds. I use the same weight through the whole workout. Just easier that way. I like my rests between sets to be relaxed. I find frantically added and subtracting weight really takes away from the rest. If I can easily make it through the set with 35 pounds, I stop using that grip and move on to another.

Hangboarding Tips:

• Use a stop watch. They're cheap and handy.  (Note:  Ryan advised me that he now uses a timer with milliseconds.  He finds that being able to more accurately anticipate the start and stop of a hang lets you both try harder, and rest better.)
  
• Get a partner. Peer pressure goes miles.
• Make sure the hangboard is at an appropriate height. Having to stacIk pads to get to the grips really takes away from your rest periods.
• Clean the fucking hangboard. Even if this means buying the route setters a beer to do so. 
• Hang weight from a harness. Avoid using a weight vest ( I do use weight vests in other activities). I find that hanging the weight provides a lower center of gravity. This avoids the tendency to arch your back to keep the center of weight under the grip.
• Log your progress in a spreadsheet.
• Plan for high intensity and low intensity days.
• Always hangboard with your elbows bent. Save the straight arm business for when you really need it. This will help with the onslaught of tendinitis. 
• Warm up properly. I usually warm up to the point were Im ready to attempt maximum redpoint boulder problems.

If your bouldering isn't producing the progression that it used to, now's the time to dust off that unused hangboard and get to work.  It's likely that you won't be sending any mono-horror show's like "Shoot'em Up" anytime soon, but you have to start somewhere, right?

Photo Credits: Thanks to Jason Karn and Metolius,  and to the impressive photography of Tara Reynvaan and Kris Taylor.

Thanks to Ryan for questioning my training plan, and for answering all the ensuing questions.  You can check out his entertaining blog at ryanpalo.blogspot.com.