REMIX | EFFORT: featuring Bill Ramsey, Jonathan Siegrist, Jason Kehl, Hazel Findlay, and more
Most of us have never given 100% to an attempt on a rock climb. Most of us just don’t know how. It’s one of the hardest to cultivate components of high performance: effort. So, the big question:
How can we all learn to give more effort?
In this REMIX episode, we'll hear from climbers Bill Ramsey, Jonathan Siegrist, Jason Kehl, Hazel Findlay, Troy Fauteux, and more, as well as author Alex Hutchinson and Hall of Fame linebacker Ray Lewis about how we – the average athlete – can refocus our effort.
VIDEOS:
CITATIONS:
Ebben, W. P., Flanagan, E. P., & Jensen, R. L. (2008). Jaw clenching results in concurrent activation potentiation during the countermovement jump. Journal of strength and conditioning research.
Allen, C. (2019). Maximal Jaw Opening as a Method of Producing Concurrent Activation Potentiation. International Journal of Kinesiology and Sports Science.
Marcora, S.M., Staiano, W. (2010). The limit to exercise tolerance in humans: mind over muscle?. European Journal of Applied Physiology.
Rupprecht, Anton G. O., Tran, Ulrich S., & Gröpel, Peter. (2021). The effectiveness of pre-performance routines in sports: a meta-analysis. International Review of Sport and Exercise Psychology.
FULL EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:
Kris Hampton 00:13
We're watching the women's four by 400 relay at the 2018 NCAA division one championships,
Audio Clip 00:22
one of the most amazing races and I love that it's last because no matter if you have five people in the stands or 5000 in the stands, every single one of the teams, individual performers, men and women are lined around that track. And this place just goes bananas in this event.
Kris Hampton 00:40
We're coming into the final leg. USC is in fourth place. As Deanna Hill passes the baton to Kendall Ellis, they collide.
Audio Clip 00:51
Oh and USC bobbles the baton at the pass!
Kris Hampton 00:55
Dropping immediately to fifth place. But Kendall Ellis is undeterred. She is after all, collegiate and American indoor record holder in the 400. And she didn't line up for fifth place.
Audio Clip 01:10
Kendall Ellis for USC now into third for Kentucky...
Audio Clip 01:13
But it's 400 meters, one lap around a track, less than 60 seconds and the woman running in front is nearly 30 meters ahead of her. Impossible.
Audio Clip 01:28
I just don't know if Purdue is going to get caught.
Audio Clip 01:32
Now there is no way it's going to drop the baton. Purdue's gonna win this which we certainly didn't
Audio Clip 01:37
see here comes SC. USC is not gonna catch Purdue I don't think Oh my goodness oh my goodness. Look was just happeining. USC wins the women's in the last meter of the 4x4! Unbelievable final leg by Kendall Ellis.
Audio Clip 01:58
50.0 on the split. I almost had a heart attack. Well it just doesn't get better than that.
Kris Hampton 02:16
Watching a race like that is stunning. If you're an athlete, it will absolutely get your heart pounding. You might even like I did jump out of your seat shouting at the screen. And it's not because I'm a USC fan. It's not because I root for the underdog. It isn't because Kendall Ellis is so damn fast. It's because I'm watching a clear example of one of the hardest to cultivate components of high performance: effort. In fact, many experts have just fallen back on either you have it or you don't. But I'm not going for that laziness. I firmly believe that effort is a teachable and learnable skill. Today, we'll hear from climbers Bill Ramsey, Jonathan Siegrist, Troy Fauteux, Jason Kehl, and more, as well as mental coach Hazel Findley, author Alex Hutchinson, and Hall of Fame linebacker Ray Lewis, about how we, the average athlete, can refocus our effort.
Kris Hampton 03:55
Whats up, everybody? I'm your host, Kris Hampton, and today on Remix from Power Company Climbing: Effort, how to try harder. But before we can learn how to increase our effort, we need to define it. And for this podcast, we're going to be talking about two very specific types of effort both rooted firmly in performance. Now, what I mean by that, is that not all effort is related specifically to performance. There's also the effort put into preparation, you can put effort into your training, into being a better communicator, cultivating lasting partnerships, into sleeping consistently, et cetera, et cetera, and you should be doing those things. But what I want to talk about here is the in the moment, on the rock effort, and in my estimation, this comes in two varieties, and many blends of the two: intensive and extensive. Now, before we go any further, let me be honest here. In this episode, we're going to go on a few tangents, more than a few, we're going to get sidetracked. And we'll go on these tangents because all of the types of effort, including that work you put into preparation, is inextricably linked to the performance efforts we want to focus on. But I promise I'll pull it back together. So stay with me. Okay. Extensive effort is the longer, drawn out, go until you just can't go anymore type of effort, the pump's stupid but still holding on, still moving still latching holds should have fallen 10 moves ago, type of effort. With the popularity and accessibility of endurance sports like running and cycling, this has been written about extensively. But if we're talking single hardest move you've ever tried that requires you to muster every ounce of tension you possess, locking a hold off at your waist and making noises like an angry baby elephant type of effort, 100% right now? That kind of effort isn't talked about as often. But it's just as important, particularly for climbing. And in fact, because in climbing, we spend so much time trying to make things easier, better beta position, subtleties, et cetera. We're actively avoiding giving more effort. So most of us have never given 100% to an attempt on a rock climb. Most of us just don't know how, not extensively or intensively. And oftentimes, if you can regularly access one type of try hard, the other is elusive. But I think that tapping deeper into that well is a skill, just like any other, a skill we can practice and have at the ready when it's needed. As I've immersed myself in all things effort over the past couple of months, I've discovered an interesting dichotomy that we, the sports fans and amateur athletes, engage in. We love to see an athlete perform effortlessly, but we hate to see athletes not show effort. And not to get too far off track here, but it's this dichotomy that betrays our attachment to outcomes. If an athlete succeeds, we're excited to see it be effortless. This is the display of mastery, even if the athlete succeeded despite not giving a real effort. However, if the athlete does not succeed when the effort is low, they are going to get crucified. And rightfully so.
Audio Clip 08:10
Cliff Lee first pitch swinging, easy grounded but Phillips didn't even run. And he is getting booed by the fans. He made a weird gesture as well. He didn't. He just kind of shook it off. Check it out.
Audio Clip 08:26
He was starting to run and he knew Philips is getting it and he just went ah heck with it.
Audio Clip 08:36
Wait a second. And BJ, taking a lot of time to get to that ball. And I don't know what that was all about.
Audio Clip 08:43
He was jogging right there. He's not running full speed.
Audio Clip 08:46
When the Rays came back off the field. Longoria took exception to BJ Upton's lack of effort in centerfield. And you can't blame Longoria for that.
Audio Clip 08:56
Listen, I would rather see teammates get on teammates for talking about what you and I just talked about because it looked like BJ was was jogging after that ball in the gap.
Kris Hampton 09:05
And this absolutely holds true in climbing. We idolize the climbers who seem to dance with no effort to the top of something hard. I've even had a very good climber tell me that it's disrespectful to fight for something, that we should be smooth all the time. Well, I respectfully disagree. Not all effort should look effortless. By its very nature, it can't. If you watched the recent HBO show "The Climb", which I honestly think showed more of the spirit of climbing than most climbing videos even attempt to show, then you no doubt remember this moment.
Deco 09:52
If I feel uncomfortable, and I'm past the point that I'm not going to be on the elimination climb. I'm just gonna Cliff jump you know.
Chris Sharma 09:58
But dude, like Oh, Obviously you gave up right there.
Deco 10:01
Yeah. And I'm not I'm not ashamed of it at all. You know, I was like, Nah. I mean, the first week was pretty intense. You know, it was pretty stressful.
Chris Sharma 10:11
The moment you have like a little bit of uncertainty you just like, I'm out of here. Yes. And we kind of like, lost a little bit of respect in that moment. Like, this is a golden opportunity.
Deco 10:23
I knew that I could. And I bailed.
Robyn 10:25
I think deco by bailing on the climb. Do you miss the point of competing, like in competing, you don't fail. That's not even something you fat up here. Like, it's just like, don't do that. You go, you go until you can't go and then you fall.
Tiffany 10:39
Some of us were trying so so so, so hard. We wanted to see you push for that, too.
Mario Stanley 10:47
If I can, I'll be quick. But this is a competition. And if you have the ability to win, and you obviously do, then you need to take it because God dammit if you can send the route you fucking send. I don't want to see that shit no more. Yeah. Because like, like, I'm sorry. No, because if I was you I would've fucking sent.
Kris Hampton 11:06
This is a great example of teammates, who in this case are also competitors, wanting to see more effort from each other. And as Chris says, he respects effort and loses some of that respect when effort isn't given. Chris Sharma knows a thing or two about effort. In fact, when he first burst onto the scene, many climbers were appalled at his yelling and jumping. That might surprise you if you came up in the Adam Ondra era.
Adam Ondra 11:38
It's fucking 100 million degrees.
Kris Hampton 11:44
In the late 90s, every time Sharma screamed his way up something hard, we'd hear, "That kid needs to learn to climb. He can't use his feet at all. It's just plain ugly." Yeah, okay. As it turns out, Chris's effortful style got him up many of the hardest routes and boulders on the planet. And I can't imagine that it's a coincidence that the two best climbers of the past two generations are both prone to openly and loudly, trying really, really hard, both intensively and extensively. But to be fair to Deco, he takes Chris's advice, and continues the show with more effort and with more respect, but his lack of effort in that moment does bring up an interesting quandary that many climbers face: tactics. Or more precisely, tactics being used as an excuse not to give a real effort. It can certainly be smart to just drop off and save energy when something goes wrong sometimes, but when to do this can't be learned without practice. It can't be learned without continuing when you maybe should have pulled back or pulling back when you should have just kept fighting for it. Because if we apply this type of tactical approach too soon, we will get burned. Much like major league baseball player BJ Upton from one of the clips we heard earlier, after repeatedly not showing effort and getting burned because of it, his career ended with no teams interested in having him. And while most of us aren't going to get burned by an opponent who takes advantage of our lack of effort, it's possible that our lack of effort is the entire reason we aren't sending, even when it seems like a smart tactical decision. So maybe, at least until you're sure you understand the best times to apply these tactics, if it's a redpoint attempt, and safety isn't a concern, don't let yourself off the hook. Continue through mistakes, go hard all the way to the finish, whether that is clipping chains or falling off. Make sure you aren't using tactics as an excuse to not have to try hard. Okay, like I tend to do, I've followed that tangent for way longer than I intended. But it was an important tangent. When we come back, we'll hear from some of the top climbers about how they view effort.
Kris Hampton 14:36
BREAK. Sport climbing season is coming fast. Got a nemesis route you need to clip chains on? For over a decade we've helped climbers prepare for their goals. We've seen patterns emerge showing what's most effective for each level of climber. Those patterns became our Proven Plans, a training system that you can follow from complete beginner to 5.14 and beyond, with workouts geared toward your goals and focused on improving not only strength and power, but tactics and mindset as well. Each Proven Plan comes with a built-in group chat and an option to work directly with one of our coaches. We don't believe in a one size fits all approach to climbing. You shouldn't either. BREAK.
Kris Hampton 15:17
Okay, the big question, how can we all learn to give more effort? I recently posed this question to a coaching mentorship group that I was working with. And I suggested that effort is directly related to how bad we want it. But one of the coaches scoffed at this saying that we all want it or why else would we be there? But do we need to examine this very question, longtime climber and philosophy professor, Bill Ramsey developed something he calls the pain box.
Bill Ramsey 15:55
Basically, it's this idea of pain relocation, when you're trying to get yourself to train and you're trying to do the hard work. There's different kinds of suffering, there's the kind of suffering that's associated with all this effort, and all this hard work, and all this sacrifice. And then there's the kind of suffering that's associated with failure. And what I've come to realize is that there's this inverse relationship between you and me, it's no different than just that motto, no pain, no gain, basically. But it's another way of visualizing it. So I have this idea of a box. And you have the one kind of pain which is a suffering from hard work and sacrifice on one side, and you have the other kind of pain, which is the pain associated with frustration of failure on the other side, and there's a bar separating the two. And what you want to try to do what most people would like is less of the frustration, failure pain, but you recognize that the only way you can get that is by increasing the quantity moving the bar to the right.
Kris Hampton 16:46
So basically, hard things are hard, you're going to have to sacrifice something in order to achieve your goals.
Bill Ramsey 16:56
The reality is when most people get frustrated, because they're not seeing success. Maybe they've aim too high. But a lot of times, it's just because they're they're not making the kind of sacrifices they need to make to reach that kind of success. So it's there in my training, it's there in my attempts on a route, it's there in my academic life. It's kind of there all the time as just a sort of perspective on how to go about living essentially.
Kris Hampton 17:20
Okay, so I'm going to answer my own question here. And the question is just showing up mean that we all want it equally. No, absolutely not. How far we're willing to move that bar in the pain box in such a way that it increases the sacrifice, but decreases the frustration from failure. That's the key here. I might think that I want it. But the biggest and best efforts require that I move that bar. And well, some of us just aren't willing to do that. Now, Bill is well known for the effort he puts into his training, and preparation. It's the stuff of legend. And that's how most of us think of the paint box. Frankly, it's the easiest way to see it. But like he says it can also be applied to attempt on a climb. So with the idea that success is never guaranteed. Let's try and reimagine Bill's pain box for effort on the wall, or at the crack. What if the left side of your equally divided box is frustration and pain from letting go after making a mistake or deciding not to try again, because your skin hurts or not being willing to give 100% physical effort because you assume you can still make the beta better. And then the right side of the box is the pain of having to not look as in control as you want to be, or of having to grab those sharp crimps again, or whatever the pain of giving another or a greater or a continued effort might be. Which way do you move the bar? The best climbers, they most often move the bar to the left, so that there's less frustration about whether or not they gave effort. And in turn, they're getting more comfortable with the discomfort that comes with not looking in control or sacrificing skin or trying something while fatigued. A seat the left side of the box that results in certain failure, the right side potential failure. These climbers who push that bar to the left are getting more comfortable giving effort in the face of potential failure.
Bill Ramsey 19:48
When I look at the climbers who are really successful are the athletes in other sports that are really successful. They're the ones that are doing the hard work. And they're the ones that are making a sacrifice and they just understand what that's involved. I mean, some people are just naturally gifted didn't have to work too hard, but most of us aren't that way. And so to make that success to get that success, it's going to require hard work sacrifice. And this pain box thing is just a kind of imagery to help bring that home basically, let's take someone like Sharma, for example, people are tempted to say, well, that guy never trains and, you know, obviously, he's just naturally gifted and so on. But I think it's that's maybe a little quick because when you look at what Sharma is, day would be like, say when he was bouldering. And how many tries he would put in and how much effort he would put in. That's trying pretty damn hard. And that is training in a sense.
Kris Hampton 20:37
One of the few people who can claim to put the same effort into their preparation as Bill is Jonathan Sechrist. Jonathan is more than just one of America's best sport climbers. He's also a dedicated student of the game.
Jonathan Siegrist 20:53
I was always like, man, Chris Sharma is just like a genetic God. And it's like, so unfair how good he is at climbing, he never is training, whatever, and then you go to the crag, and you climb with them. And he he has this like, incredible balance between. Like being so tranquillo. And also, I mean, when he tries he erupts with energy, you know, and that's exactly what you need, if you're not going to go in the gym, because that's the same attitude I would bring into my training sessions, where it'd be like, during my three minute rest, or whatever, I was, like, bring my whole sight level down, way down, no, like over Stoker, like, listen to my music, sit down, relax, prepare, and then go to the death when I was like hanging or lifting weights or whatever it was, and then again, come back down. And Chris, like, exemplifies that I can totally understand how he's been climbing his whole life never really trained, and has gotten to where he is now. Because, yeah, he I mean, when he pulls onto the rock and tries, he might only try a couple times a day, but he's going to the death, you know, not that many people can say that about their efforts. And
Kris Hampton 22:04
Jonathan, who we mostly know as a sport climber, is a master of extensive effort. But knowing that bouldering would improve his top end for sport climbing, he said about doing his homework there as well, and learned a similar lesson about intensive effort.
Jonathan Siegrist 22:24
Totally, yeah, I can remember one day I was bouldering with Nick Dotto, who's an outstanding boulderer. And in between, tries, he would like lay down, you know, like, lay on the ground and do nothing for six minutes or whatever. And I was like, Ha, that's, that's pretty sick. And, um, and especially coming from a rock climbing background, where it's like your other belaying are climbing all day, basically, maybe you take a break for 45 minutes to eat lunch, but it's like, there's always action. Like if you're not climbing, it's because you're belaying your your body. And then when it's your turn, you're going and where it's a or you're hanging on hangdog on the roof forever. So there's kind of like, if you want to boulder really well, I mean, yeah, it's, it's, you can't take the same attitude towards it, you really have to be like, Okay, I'm gonna give full effort, and then chill, and then give full effort and then chill. And I really learned this really well on the Automator, which was the first V13 I ever did. I learned after the first day of trying that, if I went to, like aggressive at the boulder, for people that don't know, it's like, probably like V10 ish, to a really hard move right at the finish. And it's, it's a little bit longer, maybe like 10 or 15 10 12 moves or something like that. And yeah, I mean, I just, I learned pretty quickly, like, okay, I can give one really good try. If I rest 10 minutes, I can give another really good try. But I could feel like, if I only rested four minutes, the trial was so much worse. If I only rested eight minutes, it was you know, and I kind of just like found that sweet spot. And thankfully, I found it pretty early on in my like quest to do these boulders. And so then I just applied that same mentality to all the other boulders I did, and it worked like it worked really well.
Kris Hampton 24:09
So let's take a look at what Jonathan has done here. He's watched two athletes who are very good at giving high effort of both varieties. And he's realized that he has the exact same skill, though he's mostly applied it to his training and preparation, a part of the process that many people find easier to give effort to. And he's experimented with how to best use that skill in his performance further, in a performance that leans toward intensive effort. Now what this says to me is that the two may not be so different, or at least the buttons you push switches you flip or dials you turn may be similar, two ends of the same spectrum. We just need to figure out exactly how to move the needle in the right direction for the effort we're facing. If you happen to be someone who's already good at applying effort to your training and your preparation, you might already have the skill right there ready to translate into your performance. But it isn't automatic. I've seen lots of people put in months worth of work and training, only to say take the first time they make a mistake on the project, and then never actually end up in ascending position. Like I said, we often want things to look and feel effortless. correcting mistakes is rarely effortless. So why not say take and try again? Well, what if there is no again, weather turns, life comes at you in a way you didn't expect partners all want to go elsewhere. Whatever. Now the pain on the left side of the box feels real, right. And with hindsight, being 2020, you might have opted for the pain of not saying take of giving effort, even though you might be disrespecting climbing by losing your form a bit. The pain of continuing on even when you're sure you're going to fall. So in your pain box threshold test, don't forget to consider the possibilities. This shouldn't be a best case scenario test. It's a reality test. And in reality, hard things are hard. Whether you like it or not
Ray Lewis 26:39
There's not a person on my team is 16 years that has consistently beat me to the ball every play. That ain't got nothing to do with talent. It's just got everything to do with effort. Nothing else 15 straight years 12 Pro Bowls later, if you want numbers. I done saw all of it. And only thing that's kept me around is my effort. All I ever knew was effort will get me seen on tape effort will get me noticed to get to the league effort would one day take care of my mom and my kids effort which is between you and you.
Kris Hampton 27:40
That is Ray Lewis, Super Bowl MVP Hall of Famer and widely considered to be the greatest linebacker of all time, one of only a few NFL players to play in a Pro Bowl in three different decades, as well as a master at one of the most explosive positions on the football field. Ray Lewis knows all about effort, both intensive and extensive. And he acutely understands the sacrifices required to do really hard things. On October 14 2012, at home in Baltimore facing the Dallas Cowboys, Ray was in his 17th year in the NFL, despite some rumblings around the league that he was losing a step. At 37 years old, he was still leading the team in tackles.
Ray Lewis 28:35
I've studied all week for this one moment. And I know it's gonna happen. I know what's gonna happen. And I'm looking at Tony Romo. And I'm watching him drop back. And I'm saying to myself, I'm saying just pick your hands up and get it Lew, you done saw this play all week. Fourth quarter big drive Baltimore going crazy. And in the midst of it. The play happens, Romo drops. My hand starts to come down. I heard a sound that I have never heard in my entire life. And my tricep popped from the bone.
Ray Lewis 29:16
And as soon as I hit it, I knew something was wrong. I said I cannot believe this. Because I know now the 17 years of me plan. So I know that this is my last ride. This is my last one. But I'm sit there and when I pop it. I see now you got a choice. And I'm sitting there with a pop and all of my players look at me and they're like you're right, Lou and I'm like Oh good. Let's go. No ain't good. Three more plays after five more plays after seven more plays after eight more plays after I'm still like to fight with my team. because it's the fourth quarter, you're gonna leave the battlefield for injury, not paying. 15th play come up, young running back come through the hole. I'm realizing that if I don't sacrifice my body and throw it in the middle of him, he probably scores we lose. I got one arm. So I just do my body and just roll with it. But it's something that tear my trust have taught me about there's two sides of pain that I don't think a lot of people really understand. Right? There's there's one side of pain. That's the suffering and the discomfort side of pain. That's why everybody raised their hands when I first asked, Do you have ever that I've ever been through pain, because that hurts. You remember what that felt like. But then there's another side of pain. That's called effort. It's called glory. It's called if you can find a way to push through pain, there's something freedom on the other side of it.
Kris Hampton 31:17
We'll be right back.
Kris Hampton 31:21
BREAK. Becoming a better climber isn't only about adding more weight to your max hang or dead lifting two times body weight. Frankly, what's more important is that you understand your motivations, your approach, and that you're honest with yourself about the amount of effort you put in both on and off the wall. My book, the hard truth, simple ways to become better climber is a collection of 26 essays that shine a light on these qualities, the ones that limit is the most the qualities that are hard to measure, the simple to manage. Simple that is when back to intention. Every essay in the hard truth is written about real climbers in real situations, maybe you know some of them. Maybe it's you. You can find the hard truth at power company climbing.com, or anywhere else, you get books. Now back to the show. BREAK.
Kris Hampton 32:16
Hard Things are hard. And don't get me wrong here. If you don't want to do hard things, then by all means, you may not have to reconsider your effort. But if you do, and if you've made it this far, I assume that you do, then you have to, like Ray Lewis did in his own pain box threshold test, make a choice. I'm not saying you should keep climbing through an injury, but the discomfort of another attempt the pain of bearing down on those sharp cramps. Again, when you're tired and making mistakes, and your skin is already thin. It's nothing compared to the pain of knowing you just walked away and gave up your chance. Certain failure. In fact, to continue giving good effort, when the discomfort is hard to stomach. You might just have to put on what climber Troy photo calls your murder face.
Troy Fauteux 33:15
Like grab a hold, ball up your fists, put your thumb around and get really mad like you're gonna punch someone Yeah, like really mad like a video of how serious you just got when you're like when I say murder face like you grab hold, and then you grab holes. And yeah, I was just over gripping everything as hard as I could. And given everything I had.
Kris Hampton 33:40
I interviewed Troy at the end of 2019 in Chattanooga, after watching a video of him sending the mandala honestly, maybe the ugliest send ever of The Mandala. But a sand is a sin and learning to value going to battle just as much as we often value being in control might help us get more of those sins. In the video, which you'll find a link to at the blog post for this episode. Troy is describing his process and the wheels start to fall off a little over halfway up. He's facing a move where it's critical for him to sit on his right foot and keep it while he bumps his right hand into a small two finger incut crimp. He's only done this move once before. He bumps in, catches the hold, but his foot picks. It's then that he turns on his murder face, pulls it back together and continues directly into another error.
Troy Fauteux 34:45
I probably should have like readjust it a little bit more. So my right hand felt better. But I was like I was getting tired at this point. And I just needed to like keep moving. So I went up through LA Tandel F. And I completely missed the slope on the lip too. And I was like, Jesus Christ, I need to finish this thing, you know. You just hit the good slope on the lip. As I Okay, you know this, you just did this earlier today, I'm matched to sloper. And I knew the key was like, getting a far left foot. And for some reason, I kind of like, find out in the moment, and I didn't even realize at the time that my left foot was just like dangling there, it come off, and I didn't even try and put it back on. And that was like the real mistake. And that's kind of wanting to start there become a real big epic.
Kris Hampton 35:44
In the video, Troy's just dangling his feet are scraping at the rock catching nothing for what feels like for ever, at the top of one of the most famous V12s in the world. And I can't even say that it's bad footwork, because there's just no footwork. He's lurching around up there, even getting campus crossed up on the top out slope, buddy, you'll have to watch it, all while dangling.
Troy Fauteux 36:15
I was, you know, willing to do anything and I was squirming and trying to get my legs up, my knee finally caught something and I was able to get the left foot back on. And I was so exhausted at that point. I can barely rock over on that side. Like, everything felt unstable. I mean, there was still a chance that I was gonna blow it right here.
Kris Hampton 36:38
Me by this time with the wheels fully off. I'd have looked down a few times and in control just dropped. And don't lie. You would have to
Troy Fauteux 36:53
you think like just drop from the lip at 25 feet and hope I get back up there.
Kris Hampton 36:58
I mean, that's that's exactly what I want to hear. Like, that's what most people think.
Troy Fauteux 37:02
Uh, No.
Kris Hampton 37:03
But Troy doesn't drop off. He fights for it. And this time at least he's rewarded for his fight
Audio Clip 37:12
Come on Troy, come on troy, come on.
Audio Clip 37:23
Yes, buddy.
Troy Fauteux 37:27
YES. How did I do that? How?
Audio Clip 37:32
That's incredible. Yes, yes.
Kris Hampton 37:41
To tap into this kind of effort, the ball up your fist, this is going to hurt a lot. But I'm going to do it anyway. Because that's what I came here for type of effort. It might just help to get angry, murder face.
Kris Hampton 37:58
And in your videos when you're climbing. The shots of you climbing there's so much intensity. Is that? Like do you bring that to your projects? Is that more for the video? What's that? I mean, it's almost like it's not anger. I won't call it anger. But it's Well, it's an intensity.
Jason Kehl 38:21
Yeah, it's directed anger, you know? Yep. Okay.
Kris Hampton 38:25
That's Jason Kehl, one of the most creative, most passionate climbers we've ever seen. And I love how he frames anger here.
Jason Kehl 38:36
A lot of times, I'll climb with people, certain friends won't mentioned any names. And you know, they fall off their project and they get mad on the ground. They hit the ground and they're screaming, and I'm like, why didn't you just do that up there? Right. And you're still on the wall? You know, project that into the climbing.
Kris Hampton 38:56
Use all that energy for the climb.
Jason Kehl 38:57
Yeah, I think that's, I mean, that's what I like to do. I like to, you know, know when to turn it on know when to relax, and know when to get aggressive. And, for me, I have to try hard to succeed. You know, I'm not like, the best climber in the world. Like things are hard. And if I don't try my hardest, I'm not going to do it. Right. Right. Yeah. So I think that just knowing when to turn it on, and, you know, the end goal for me is to succeed. And I have to get into that mindset sometimes to succeed. Yeah. But yeah, I like to, you know, be pretty lucky and pretty calm. Like, I'm a pretty, you know, unaffected guy. Like I don't let things stress me out. If something's bad, like, okay, that's what it is. But yeah, at a certain point, like in the wobbler in the video. It was hot. I've been working this way too long. And yeah, just Yeah, you've pushed to a certain point. And a lot of times, like, it's hard to get to that point that you allow yourself to try that hard. Yeah. And a lot of times I feel that like, it's strange, because you know, you're strongest when you first arrive, and you're ready to send, but I'll have to fail so much. Yeah, to push me to that mental point where I'm like, Okay, it's, it's done. Like, I gotta just, you know, suck it up and do it. And the fact is, I'm way too tired to do it. Sure. And I should have, you know, turned it on, like an hour ago. But I had to get pushed to that point of failure. And that that point of like, okay, you're not going to do this now. Now, I have to turn it on, you know, I have no other option. You know, that's the key. It'd be cool to tap into that early on. But sometimes I don't hit that point until the very end of the day. The last try. I'm so exhausted. Yeah, that's it, you know, turns you into something else. It's, it's kind of interesting.
Kris Hampton 40:59
Have you tried to figure out how to turn it on earlier?
Jason Kehl 41:02
Yeah. Like bite a piece of wood or something I'm climbing? Yeah, definitely. And sometimes, sometimes you can, and sometimes you can't.
Kris Hampton 41:13
I wonder how much putting the video camera on you. And knowing that you're going to create something else out of it can allow you to turn that switch on? Because I see it in a lot of your videos.
Jason Kehl 41:27
Or having people around. Because, you know, sometimes you're climbing by yourself. And it's, it's harder to turn it on, because there's no people being like, Oh, come on, come on. Yeah. And yeah, it's definitely connected. Because here's one thing every time I'm trying my project, and it's super strange, it's like, I'm connected with the video, is that, you know, I walk over there, and I push record on the camera. Yep. As soon as I push that button, I know, I can't back away. Yeah, you know, it's not like, when I'm at the base of the climb, and I pull on the climb, it starts. Soon as I press that button, I'm like, Shit, I just, you know, engage the situation like, I have to get on and do it. Now I can't back out, like, it's super weird, I start to get nervous. I'm like, push record, and I walk over there. I'm like, I'm going to be on the wall in like 15 seconds. And I just have to do it, you know. But at the same time, I don't like it. Because I'm, I'm getting nervous before the fact that it's even starting. Because I know that the real start, you know, like you can't turn back now.
Kris Hampton 42:31
We need to find a trigger, a way to put ourselves into the mindset that allows us to give that effort, something that says you can't turn back now. And maybe for you anger isn't the way maybe like Jason alludes to here. It's more like a performance, whether with people around or even just pushing the button on your camera. And I've been performing a long time, this nervousness that Jason doesn't really like. We can reframe that. I've decided that nervousness is just my body preparing to do something extraordinary. And when I feel that nervousness, I know I'm ready to take that last step and execute no turning back. This idea, having what sports scientists refer to as a pre performance routine has been studied quite a bit. And while researchers don't always agree on the mechanisms, they almost always agree on the effectiveness. A 2021 meta analysis published in the International review of Sport and Exercise psychology, looked at papers focused on 14 different sports, both team and individual, and ultimately showed that a pre performance routine can provide a performance advantage in many different situations across genders, ages, and pretty much any other variable you can come up with. And what's more, it suggests that having an individualized routine that's meaningful to you might be even more powerful.
Hazel Findlay 44:09
Totally, yeah, and, and making these things. Yeah, a lot of people this stuff just doesn't gel with them. Sure. It just and they maybe have claimed a long time and they've got their methods that are either conscious, or subconscious, or whatever it is, and, and all this stuff. They're just like, What a load of shit and then just doesn't gel with them.
Kris Hampton 44:30
That's Hazel Finlay. But you probably already knew that. She has made her name climbing on things that most of us see as both too hard and too scary. And she's now running strong mind climbing, where she helps climbers develop their mental game. I talked with hazel in the summer of 2017 as she was just beginning her journey into becoming a mental coach for climbers.
Hazel Findlay 44:55
But if it does gel with you, then I think just playing seeing what works for you, and making them familiar, because when you use this stuff quite a lot, it becomes like a little ritual. And it becomes it's kind of like an old friend or there's just like this kind of comforting familiarity to some of this stuff. Yeah. comforting to just like, and what that feels like in your body is is, is so personal to you.
Kris Hampton 45:30
I went down to the World Cup in Vail, Colorado, and I was talking to competitors about pressure and how they deal with it. One of the younger competitors, a girl named Lily, Canavan had some of the best advice.
Lily Canavan 45:48
Definitely, like having a routine before every boulder or even like the night before it just like getting in the right mindset, like doing the same thing helps a lot.
Kris Hampton 45:59
Do you have a routine? Is there something you like to do pre climb?
Hazel Findlay 46:04
I'm actually being coached at the minute by this guy called Cameron who works at the flow center, who's kind of doing all this research into flow and stuff. And we came up with this ritual together, I do this thing where I just like, really kind of like, think about how I'm tying my knot. And then and start kind of connecting to my breath whilst I'm on the ground still. And then I also like to do this thing where I just feel what the chalks like. And so what I like to do is like, apply the same level of focus to my climbing is to my, my rest, so you know, like, real active resting, so how much weight is through my right toe right now? How pumped is my right arm, really focusing on getting my heart rate down, like is my heart rate back. So that kind of a normal level, you know, just applying that same level of focus. And then before I climb, I'll employ some of those techniques. So looking at that first hold, really seeing what it looks like, connecting to my breath, feeling what the chalk feels like, in the chalk bag, you know, that kind of thing. And then click back on, it's like, it's like switching back into a high level of focus. And that seems to work pretty well. Yeah,
Kris Hampton 47:25
I have a pre climb ritual that I never really thought of as a pre climb ritual. until just recently, since I've really been digging into this. But I really like to take my harness off and put it back on. I like to be putting my harness on right before I tie in right before I go. Oh, cool. It just feels like suiting up to me. Yeah, like getting prepared. Yeah. I like that. If it's something difficult for me, I do it every time. You know, if I'm climbing with new people around, they look at me like I'm really strange. Like you just took that off.
Kris Hampton 47:59
Do you leave a gap in between? Do you like take off and do like, little weird stretches?
Kris Hampton 48:05
Nope, I don't have to I can just take it off. Step out of it. And then I can step right back in and go into that mode. I don't know if that was always the case. Maybe there was a time when there had to be a gap or there just was a gap that was there. I don't know. But now just the act of pulling the harness on and buckling up and tying in that whole act gets me into the right mindset. I haven't found my routine for boulders yet. You know, boulders are a little harder
Hazel Findlay 48:35
Maybe you take your trousers off and put them back on?
Kris Hampton 48:40
I'll try that. You never know it could work.
Hazel Findlay 48:47
Chalkbag? I suppose he didn't really take your chalk bag bouldering do you?
Kris Hampton 48:50
No I didn't know. It's tougher for me. bouldering seems a little more frantic. Like a lot more. It's faster. Yeah. So I have a harder time breathing and getting into that mode.
Hazel Findlay 49:03
You can just like look at the first holds of the boulder problem go. - breath - And then just like do it.
Kris Hampton 49:11
And Hazel was on to something here. Not necessarily with the trousers thing which I did try didn't help. But with the breathing, particularly for bouldering, which is generally more intensive, finding the right level of arousal is key. Now I'm generalizing here, but most sport climbing can be started at a relatively low level of arousal and then ramped up and modulated throughout the route, which is a whole different podcast. But bouldering very often needs you to be at a high level of arousal as soon as you pull onto the wall. Sometimes just pulling your ass off the pads at all requires it. If you watch someone like Adam Ondra whether it's on the ground before a heart, boulder or Ready to rest before a hard crux, he very intentionally ramps himself up using the same noises he makes when trying hard. He inhales deep, but then exhales sharp with these animalistic noises. It revs him up. And one of the hypothesized mechanisms for why a pre performance routine works is that it allows you to control the internal environment rather than trying to control the external environment. This changed breathing the noises and like hazel says, noticing how that feels in your body is a way of controlling your internal environment, and making it match what you're about to do. I asked many of you on Instagram, how you prepare for intensive efforts. And the suggestions were great, ranging from physical tasks similar to post activation potentiation, to all sorts of pre performance routines, breathing and specific ways visualization, having a mantra, metal yells and music that gets you into the right aggressive mindset, All things that the research indicates are helpful. But we knew that right. As usual, the athletes are figuring out how to get to where they need to be before science even has a look at it. Many of you are doing the right things. What ended up working for me in terms of intensive effort, which I developed over the course of a year of trying things out, usually looks something like this. First, I need a reset no matter what's going on around me so that I can start from the same baseline every time. And I do that by taking a few steps away, that's usually toward the boulder. I close my eyes, I take one slow, deep breath that relaxes me. Then I vigorously shake my hands usually about seven times a touch the first holds and get into the starting position. And at this point, if I'm not feeling quite on yet, I let go shake my hands a few more times. And back to the holds one deep inhale through my nose, followed by a single sharp exhale, which is accompanied by a noise that honestly works partly because I never feel self conscious about it no matter how many people are around. And then I'm ready to pull on and try hard. Now I know it might sound crazy that it took me a year to come up with this. And it ultimately only takes a few seconds to complete. But really, there's a lot that goes into it. Let's see if we can break down how to build your own pre performance routine. Step one direction, try and understand which mindset or arousal level you want to get to. Generally, when the moves get harder, the effort needs to be more intensive. Of course, this won't always hold true delicate moves might be just as hard but require you to calm down. And an incredibly powerful move with a high level of precision might need the intensity to be throttled back. And since we're generally learning here, if there's a space you have a hard time accessing, that's a good place to start. Step two behaviors, consider the things you can do to control your internal environment when you're in the situation. What I mean is that if you need to get into a certain performance mode at the crag, then the implements you have available in the gym won't be very helpful. Stay specific to the performance and the things you have some control over breathing, noticing the details of the holds or how your chalk feels like hazel said, Maybe you like the pressure of the camera. Are there sounds you can make that help you feel a certain way whether ramped up or calm down music that gets you there. Some research suggests that a mantra can be really helpful. I have the word float tattooed on my forearm where I can see it while climbing for this exact reason. If you found visualization helpful for other things, it can be helpful here too. imagining yourself completing an explosive powerful move can help get your nervous system moving in that direction. As long as you have some level of control over it. It's somewhat task relevant, and it's meaningful to you, then it's fair game to experiment with. And don't forget to ask yourself like Jonathan Siegrist did. Do you already know how to access this place and another part of your life training work some other sport? Is there something you can take from there? Step three, trial and error in relatively low stakes environment during practice or training or a day at the crag when you aren't necessarily trying your hardest things, work on putting together some of these actions. What feels best, what gets you closer and what takes you out of the moment? What will you feel comfortable doing not only in private, but also in front of a crowd. And while I'm mostly talking mindset here, we also have to get our bodies prepared, the two things are tied together so tightly that there's just no way to completely unwind them. Warming up to a level where you're physically prepared to give optimal effort could be its own entire episode. And in fact, Nate and I have talked about this extensively on board meetings, you're going to want to experiment there as well, in conjunction with these behavioral cues, to know if you're fully primed, and ready to go. A couple of simple basics to keep in mind, if you're giving an extensive effort, you likely want to have gotten a little pumped already. And if it's an intensive effort, you want to have already tried hard, likely a full body trihard rather than just pulling on a fingerboard, though, that can also be really effective to ramp up the nervous system and make sure your fingers are ready. And this step is where it's going to start taking some real time. There are lots of things to experiment with and evaluate and reevaluate. And as things start to seem like they're working, you have to give them a real chance. This takes time. But ultimately, what you're looking for is a series of actions that you can recreate in nearly any external environment that will get your internal environment to a specific level of arousal. Personally, I have two or three variations of this for different arousal levels and different situations. Step four, stress testing. Start trying it out where it matters. This can be at the crag or at the gym, as long as you care about the thing you're doing. Pay attention to whether or not your routine is getting you into the place you need to be the right arousal level and the right mindset. If not go back to step three, make some adjustments and try again. And remember, it took me a year to develop a single effective pre performance routine for intensive effort. My extensive effort routine developed naturally likely over a much longer period of time. And that's okay. keep refining it until you've got what works for you. And now, I'm going to throw a wrench in the works. That's only the pre performance routine. Important. Sure, but only a small part of this. Because all that trihard you've just learned to cultivate. Well, it's likely that you can try much harder.
Kris Hampton 58:06
In 1997 researcher Tim Noakes theorized that our physical output during exercise is regulated by the brain. Essentially, he believed that to keep our bodies from harm, the brain puts the brakes on our effort. And he called this the central Governor theory. And lots of researchers have come up with similar theories. But to me, the difference all seems like semantics. As athletes, all we really need to be concerned with is that the brain is stopping the body from continuing rather than simply being stopped by muscle fatigue. In a randomized controlled trial in 2010, titled The limit to exercise tolerance in humans, mind over muscle researcher Samuel Marcora asked 10 elite rugby players to first do a five second maximum power test on a stationary bike. Then they all undertook a cycling trial to exhaustion, they had to maintain a minimum of 242 watts for as long as possible. There were cash prizes to the top performers, and the results were being immediately circulated publicly to ensure that the subjects went all out. At the point when someone quit, not able to keep up the 242 Watts, they had one second of rest, and then they had to do a second maximum power test. The results, though they believe they couldn't continue outputting 242 watts. And keep in mind, these were elite athletes. One second later, they averaged 731 watts in a five second burst. That's nearly triple the minimum power. So either their muscles recovered in one second, or there's something else at play here. A central governor of sorts In the book, indoor mind, body and the curiously elastic limits of human performance, author Alex Hutchinson dives deep into this theory and the research surrounding it. As a result, he uncovers one of the keys to how we can learn to give more effort.
Alex Hutchinson 1:00:16
I think this is a general, uh, principle that we make our decisions not on the basis of sort of our bought my body made me do it, my legs made me do it my but on this subjective sense of effort effort is the master switch our subjective conception of how hard it feels.
Kris Hampton 1:00:35
So basically, how we perceive the effort we're giving or need to give, will in part dictate whether we can try harder or keep going, as if we could just trick ourselves into believing that the chains are closer or it isn't as hard to get there, than we could just do it or not count the weights on a bar, we could lift more,
Alex Hutchinson 1:00:55
the first thing I'll say is if if you put the bar that with five kilos extra on it, and if I don't tell you that it has those five kilos, so that you think it's just the same load that you've lifted before, that's going to raise your chances dramatically of of, of lifting it. If you believe that yeah, this is I've done this before, of course, I can do this, then you'll have a much greater chance of doing it fundamentally, what's going on as your brain is sending a signal to your muscles, telling how many muscle fibers should be recruited, which muscle fibers in what order. And so it's a very, very complex process. You know, if you don't think you're going to be able to do it, then you're already perhaps contracting in a pattern that is defensive, so that when you fail, you're not going to hurt yourself. But in doing so you make it less likely that you succeed. Whereas if the neuromuscular signaling is proceeding with the assumption that you're going to be able to do it, you're maybe giving yourself a little edge because you're not holding back with the fear of failure. If if you believe you're capable of something, it will change fundamentally the way you go about doing it. And it will change your experience of whether you think you're capable of it, it will change your perception of effort. And then you're able to keep going or lift more or run faster, even though you haven't changed anything about what's going on in your muscles for your heart or your lungs. And so there's been a number of studies that have demonstrated that to be the case, if you find a way of manipulating perceived exertion, then you've effectively found a way of changing your physical limits.
Kris Hampton 1:02:28
Now that sounds really exciting. And once upon a time I did onsite a 12c in the Red River Gorge called Mosaic when I thought I was on an 11d called goldrush. I just assumed maybe I'd made the crux a little harder than it needed to be. But it still seemed about 11d, maybe 12a. But I think it's pretty unrealistic to assume that we can regularly trick ourselves like this. We know where the chains are, most of the time, whether we like it or not, we know the grade. Oftentimes, knowing the grade is part of why we chose the project. And you can debate the merits of that all day. But it doesn't change the fact that grades play into our progression, just like knowing the weights plays into the progressive overload and the performance of lifters. So what do we do?
Alex Hutchinson 1:03:17
You want to try and find techniques that are a little bit more under your control. And so for me this the number one thing is is a technique called motivational self talk.
Kris Hampton 1:03:27
Okay? I know what you're thinking, but we're not talking about this sickly sweet, always nice to yourself positive self talk. That's just not it. Instead, we're talking about any sort of inner monologue that helps you believe that you can do it, that the task at hand is below what you're capable of. And that may not always sound positive. Take for example, Kira candies tattoo, it reads, you suck, try harder. Those same words are painted on the wall of the a the gym in Minneapolis where Kira trained, and where she spent a lot of time harnessing her ability to give top level effort. Lots of people had an adverse reaction to the tattoo, seeing it as Kira being negative, but those people are missing the point. It's motivational for her. Those words help her get into the same sort of mindset she used while at the A to become the fierce competitor she is. And this sort of mantra might not work for you and that's fine. It's not your tattoo. And even though I do like to be coached in that way, my inner monologue is different. And like I mentioned, I use the word float. What that does for me, is let me know that I can make this next section look easy. It isn't easy, but because I believe that I can climb it easily. My perception is that there's less effort required. So my brain will allow my body to give that effort. It won't put the brakes on
Alex Hutchinson 1:04:59
Your subjective perception of effort is suggestible. If you're telling yourself, this is the hardest thing I've ever done. I this is so so hard, I can't believe how hard this is. You're putting your thumb on the scale so that it actually becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.
Kris Hampton 1:05:16
The theory here is that we're replacing that normal self talk that happens when someone tries something hard. You know what I mean, we've all been there, the, I'm about to fall, I don't think I can do this next move, because I'm too tired, or it's just too hard type of talk. Instead, we're replacing that with something motivational that helps you believe your effort levels are up to the task. We're reframing effort, and changing our perception of it.
Alex Hutchinson 1:05:47
I, I'm a sort of very skeptical guy by by nature. And I sort of have always ignored sports psychology and not really put much stock in it. But when I started to look at this research, it made me think, Oh, wait, you know, this. These are these are results from scientific labs, really quantifying the fact that what's going on in your brain matters.
Kris Hampton 1:06:06
I don't even think this is debatable. There's not a single top athlete who will tell you otherwise. What it is, though, is nebulous. It's not as simple as just coming up with the routine and then talking to ourselves in a motivating way. So how do we put all of this together in a way that we can move the needle on our ability to give effort
Alex Hutchinson 1:06:28
You have you so you have to have done it 1000 times, In not too unpleasant circumstances, you know, in training, before it can become ingrained enough that you'll actually be able to summon it successfully in competition.
Allen Iverson 1:06:42
What are we talking about? Practice? We're talking about practice. We talking about practice? Are we talking about practice?
Kris Hampton 1:06:53
In all fairness to Iverson, those reporters read a line. But yes, we are talking about practice. And look, I know we've covered a lot of ground. But I promise right after this quick break, we're going to tie all of this together with some simple and actionable ways that we in the gym or at the crag can improve our effort.
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Kris Hampton 1:08:07
Hard things are hard. And pinning down how to get better at trying really hard. Well, that's also hard. And this was supposed to be a 30 minute episode. And here we are blowing right past 60 minutes. But I think we can do this. We can tie it all together. And whether the effort you're trying to improve is intensive or extensive. It's actually pretty simple. We go climb things. Of course, we don't just go climb things. There's some intention that you have to bring in order for this to be effective. First, we need to reframe what we're doing. Yes, this is preparation. But because there's very little pressure in the process of preparing, we need to find a way to add some real gravity to the situation. Maybe not the best term to use when talking about climbing, but you know what I mean? You have to really care about it. Because if you don't, there's no pressure. And there are a few ways we can do this. You can choose a project in the gym that you know is coming down soon. Or make a bed of some sort with a friend on which one of you will do something first. Maybe you've got a scrappy, local outdoor area with some boulder route you've avoided because the holes are too sharp or whatever. Make yourself a role that you can't climb on the things you want to do until you do this thing. Give yourself a totally artificial time constraint. 10 minutes to do a challenging boulder or two tries on a route. And then that's it. You never get to touch it again. That's pressure. If you have trouble with extensive effort, get rid of the tactics for a project or to go ground up every time Time, if you have trouble with intensive effort, pick something way above your head where you're not even sure you can get off the ground. Essentially, you want to add pressure that's going to require you to give more effort. And here right now, where there's low stakes pressure is the best place to practice that pre performance routine we discussed earlier. And you don't have to dedicate all of your time to this, choose one day a week or one out of every four sessions, or even just 30 minutes each session. This kind of work can get really frustrating. So make sure that you're keeping your momentum up elsewhere. And of course, it can't be all go all the time, like Jonathan Siegrist talked about, we have to learn to regulate our effort, as he put it,
Jonathan Siegrist 1:10:48
This like incredible balance between being so tranquilo. And also, I mean, when he tries he erupts with energy.
Kris Hampton 1:10:57
Otherwise, we flame out. This is about getting more quality reps in. For that we need rest, perform rest, effort, rest, erupt, rest. Of course, if it's extensive effort you need to practice then rest may not be the answer at all, you want to have to do something while fatigued so rest less between routes than just rest more between your sessions. And when you're going hard, consider this. There's research that indicates that facial expression is directly tied to effort, relax your face, you can likely go for longer. And to give a more intensive effort requires a different face. A clenched jaw has been shown to improve grip strength by up to 16%. And maximal jaw opening has a similar effect. You know what maximal jaw opening sounds like? And you know what a fully clenched jaw is murder face
Troy Fauteux 1:12:02
When I say murder face like you grab holds, and then you grab holes.
Kris Hampton 1:12:06
Recently Troy posted that he had done his 2000 V6 and harder in only eight years of climbing outside. I suspect some of that effort he channels is responsible for this output. And some of that intensity he can call upon is because he's put himself into situations that require it over and over. So whenever you see a pressurized situation, don't shy away from it due to good tactics or whatever other excuse you have, instead, reframe it as an opportunity to continue this practice. Barely time for one more pitch before it's dark. Do it anyway. It's supposed to rain at noon, so you only get a couple of hours to try the project. Great opportunity. Go try it, it's not wasted time. There's line on your project and that stresses you out, lean into it. Get in line compet your gym and competing gives you anxiety. Fantastic. Give it a try. Turn in that scorecard. Take your pre performance routine and the self talk you've been practicing and apply them to these opportunities. Remember what Arno Ilgner said about projects in the remix process episode.
Arno Ilgner 1:13:24
It's a test. Okay, it's a test of your learning. Let's draw a line in the sand here and make sure that you actually can show me that you've learned how to keep it together to do that redpoint.
Kris Hampton 1:13:42
Opportunities. All of these methods have one thing in common. And it's another one of those buzzwords that might make you roll your eyes. Mindfulness, hear me out. Mindfulness can be defined a lot of ways but for our purpose. I like seeing it as non judgmental self awareness. Because to have any control over our internal environment, we have to first be aware of it by being intentional going into these sessions this practice and then being honest, on the back end, you're developing self awareness, what's working, what's not, am I ready for this test? These are data points. Use them, don't judge them. Just use them, improve your practice and you will improve your effort. And let's be clear, this is going to be painful, frustrating, uncomfortable. So you should be regularly checking yourself against Bill Ramsay's pain box not only in performance, now to in practice. For this situation, let's say on the left side of the box is the frustration from knowing that if you don't lean into trying harder, you're leaving some gains on the table. You did didn't even give it a chance, not enough effort, certain failure. On the right side of the box, the pain and struggle of regularly putting yourself into uncomfortable stressful situations that require more effort. Choose wisely, because everything from here could depend on this choice. And Jason Kale was really on to one of the keys of this whole thing. See, many people are preaching that when you're tired, you should stop. But those coaches are getting it wrong. That's for strength training. When this idea is applied to performance, or the practice of giving a better performance, it's going to fall short. Every single time.
Jason Kehl 1:15:46
I'll have to fail so much, to push me to that mental point where I'm like, Okay, it's done. Like, I got to just, you know, suck it up and do it. And the fact is, I'm way too tired to do it. And I should have, you know, turned it on, like an hour ago. But I had to get pushed to that point of failure. And that that point of like, okay, you're not going to do this now. Now, I have to turn it on, you know, I have no other option.
Kris Hampton 1:16:14
The more times we do these hard things, moving that bar and the pain box and getting comfortable with giving effort in the face of potential failure. And the more aware of how we feel while trying them, and then can adjust from there, the better we get at reframing our effort at knowing and believing that we can do hard things, and the brain won't put the brakes on so soon. I asked a question of you on Instagram, what percentage chance of success do you need in order to give 100% effort, and I gave you four choices 5% or less between six and 20% 21 to 50%, and more than 50%. And out of over 1000 responses may be predictably, the higher percentage chances got the highest votes, while the two lower percentage chances got the fewest. So as the chance of success drops, we're more likely to not even try to just walk away. In an old black diamond video of Adam Ondra, convincingly flashing Gecko Assis, a V14 in Fontainebleau, it's not hard to notice that his intensive effort not to mention the confidence and precision he displays is top level unmatched. But what might just slip by if you aren't paying close attention, is what he says before he pulls on. He first acknowledges that he isn't sure he even believes it's flashable. But then starts giving himself reasons that he can do it. It's his style, the weather is good, et cetera. He's changing his perception of the effort required, convincing his brain to not pump the brakes. He finishes by saying that he may be has a 5% chance of doing it. Not 50%, not 25% 5%. And then he pulls on, and he smashes it. And when I talked to Bill Ramsey, he recently had a surprise send on a route called Jumbo Pumping Hate, a 14a at Clark mountain that he'd long dreamt of doing. When I asked what he thought about his chances that day.
Bill Ramsey 1:18:38
The day I did it, I mean, if you'd asked me do you think you're going to do it today? I'm like, No, I would say but maybe a 5% chance. Even when you don't feel like he can do something, you're gonna have a pretty good day if you feel good about your effort.
Kris Hampton 1:18:56
At the link in your show notes, you'll find a full transcript of this episode links to the full conversations with Bill, Jonathan, Troy, Jason, and Hazel, as well as citations for the papers that I've mentioned. Remix is brought to you by power company climbing.com. Remember, hard things are hard. Sometimes, if you want to send, a 5% chance is enough to give 100% effort.
Troy Fauteux tries harder than you do.